Thursday, November 15, 2012

Production division poll

Note there is a poll just to the right of this column asking what we should do about Production division next year.  We are not going to be USPSA sanctioned next year so we will have to write in our own rules for pistol only divisions.

My first thought on Production is that we should closely follow USPSA rules so that if you do shoot USPSA matches it will be very similar with no equipment differences.  However, we do have the option of removing mag capacity restrictions or anything else we want to do.  So, I ask you, what do you think?

Please leave comments to this post as well.  Your opinions are important (as long as they're not anonymous)


TOM L. said...

Already voted and now wish to address the minority "single stack". I like 10 + 1 . Do we also need to vote or just follow uspsa multigun tactical?

Nik Habicht said...

While I understand that things change, I'll miss having York in the Mid-Atlantic Section. Have fun, and if you decide you miss us, well, the door'll always be open! Good luck.


John L. said...

I think the 15 round limit is a good choice. If a shooter wishes to stick with the 10 rounds for their own practice and comfort, thats fine too.

Marty said...

Some production guns do not have a 15 round magazine capacity, I vote for Keep It like it is

Paul said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Howard C. Thompson said...

Some very interesting debate going on.
A. I'm not opposed to splitting into 2 divisions i.e. pro and pro10, and that may spwan another poll.
B. Keep in mind that you can shoot a Glock, M&P, XD etc in Limited and do pretty much anything you want to it already. The only disadvantage I can think of is the trigger, and that can be pretty close if done well. The advantage of a safe action gun in Limited is no thumb safety so the ditch is quicker. I'm just saying maybe the anything you want option is irrelevant? Howard

Brian Shuey said...

I see Howards point. If you're running IMG rules, there are not power factor requirements therefore limited would be scored the same as production. If you want to load your mags up, just sign up for limited.

-Brian Shuey

Mike Stephens said...

Here's what I propose to merge pistol & Multigun at York:

In terms of pistol designation for Shotgun/Pistol or Rifle/Pistol Multigun for guys/girls that want to shoot Multigun but want to practice their USPSA skills at the same time, we give 4 options:
Open - Normal USPSA open pistol rules

Regular Limited or Tac Ops - iron sights, 140mm mag
Length restriction, IMGA tac ops or limited rules

L10 or Tac10 - designates shooters that want to
practice their production or L10 pistol skills in

RSS - Real Single Stack, 1911 style 45 ACP'S only
8-round (max) mags only. This division is for real men or traditional single stack. If you shoot 10 round SS mags, especially in 9mm or .40, shoot L10

Howard C. Thompson said...

We're not really talking about a merge here we're more talking about people shooting the "pistol only" option.

Single Stack rules will definitely come in another post, so just hold off on that for now.

The multi-gun divisions are already set, and I don't see adding new ones to that, at least for now, as they cover about anything you could possible want to shoot now.

Brian's point about no power factor in IMGA is a very relevant one. Keep that in mind.

Anonymous said...

I say just shoot limited if u want more rounds and mods that's what I plan to do... Especially with no pf to set you at a disadvantage

Kevin downing

Mike Stephens said...

For pistol only shooting ... I don't know.

On one hand, following similar USPSA equipment rules & mag restrictions for Production allows our shooters that still want to compete in USPSA Production a venue for match practice.

On the other hand it would be more fun to load up production guns & compete with more bullets in mags without having to compete against traditional "limited" or single action guns.

I like more fun, so I'm leaning more towards higher round count in production.

TOM L. said...

For pistol only, I prefer USPSA rules and, of course, multigun is a different issue.No need to complicate the rules!

Anonymous said...

If the other handgun divisions for York will closely follow USPSA rules, then keep Production as 10 rds.

But if you are going to have different rules (non-USPSA rules) for other divisions, or new divisions, "Production" should be whatever normally comes with that gun (so greater than 10 rds is OK).

One thing to try to avoid is allowing the use of Glock 17 mags (17rd 9mm) in a Glock 19 (15rd 9mm). If you allow that, I think you would have to allow factory Glock 33rd mags in a G-19.

Paul said...

I deleted my other comment because it was not worded clearly and basically said the same thing 3 ways..
I'd like to see a class that mirrors USPSA for those who want to shoot pistol only with their USPSA gear and the production class is the only group that doesn't meld right into IMG rules.

And I have to agree with Howard and Brian about the Power Factor issue.
Since there is no penalty for power factor, if you want more rounds just shoot limited.

I think we should strive to keep it as simple as possible to keep attracting new shooters to make that leap into competition.
Adding similar classes with slight rule changes adds confusion.

Keep Production class USPSA compliant.

If you want more rounds move into Limited.

Gary S said...

What Paul said....+1

TOM L. said...

Paul said it all...make it +2

Rob said...

My first reaction was "We're outlaws now, we don't need any stinking d@#$ rules! Except for multi-gun divisions, run what you brung."

Upon reflection, I think for pistol only shooters, we should follow USPSA equipment divisions. Why reinvent the wheel?

Steve M. said...

well with pmc going up to 9 bucks a box i may be shooting pistol next year. these prices are crazy. thanks obama

Anonymous said...

I shoot a FS M&P9. I'd like to be able to shoot it fully gassed up with 17+1 and with a WML. If I need to take a procedural so others will be happy, I suppose that's fine, but it'd be nice if I can see my score without procedural easily for my own training purposes.

Howard C. Thompson said...

What's a WML?

James Fort said...

Weapon mounted light

TOM L. said...

Why pay attention to anonymous?......

ALBY said...

I love USPSA production rules.


Sarah Brady