June Multi-gun at York Izaak Walton

Here is the link to the June Multi-gun application.  It will fill quickly.  Get yours in the mail asap.  We will only take a limited number of shooters and applications are already pouring in.

http://www.yorkiwlaipsc.com/forms/York_2D3G_Spr2013.pdf

A couple questions that have come up already:

1. Can we shoot in a single day?  Yes, either Saturday or Sunday. 

2. Should we enclose a check with our entry fee if we plan on working the match?  Yes, everyone pays full price up front, even if they plan on working.

3. What if we want to help?   We'd love to have your help.  The plan is that we will all work one day and shoot the other.   Twp staff per stage if possible.  When you shoot you shouldn't have to worry about the match administration as well.  We will provide lunch to you on the day you shoot and reimburse you $60 for a full day of help, which coincidentally is the same amount as your entry fee.  I'll be in touch with your working and shooting schedule well ahead of time.

4. Will squad requests be honored?  As much as possible.  If I need you to shoot on another day I'll contact you and we'll work it out.  We can't all shoot on the same day.

5. Will Greg be shooting?  Yes, and Dean said he will be there, and probably some other great shooters too.  Classify yourselves accordingly.  But remember to aim high.  

6. How much money goes into the prize pool?  I'm figuring about $10 out of the $60 entry fee will go towards the prizes.  We're trying to keep entry fees very affordable, and still make some money for the club.  By the time you deduct the prize money, t-shirt cost, target cost, lunch, and staff reimbursement we should be able to make a modest profit and still be the most inexpensive multi-gun match around.

7. What if I don't own all three guns?  Then you better buy or borrow some.  You will need a centerfire rifle (223 or better), shotgun (20 ga or better) and handgun (9mm or better) that meet the rule requirements.

8. What rules will we use?  The same ones used at the 2013 FNH Championship.  Here's that link: http://www.yorkiwlaipsc.com/forms/3g%20MATCH%20RULES%20Final.pdf

9. Will the stages be published ahead of time?  That is our intent.  They're not done yet.  I'll email them out to registered competitors and publish them on our blog www.yorkpistol.blogspot.com when they are complete.

Email me if you have any questions, H-

FunShoot Operations Poll

This is the comment conversation I was hoping for, Keep it up!

I tried something a little different Saturday, I dropped official scoring and stage descriptions in the back.  I presented a bunch o' stuff to engage, and only specified what could be engaged with what gun, leaving the solution completely up to the shooter.  This also allowed the shooter to pick different guns on different stages.

The idea came to me when I was trying to determine all the different gun classes that can now happen, and it is a bunch, pistol only, pistol shotgun, pistol rifle, rifle shotgun, irons and scoped, etc, etc, and then throw in rimfire combos. Goodness I have created a monster.  Toss in that last month I only got 20 or so score sheets turned in, and then only 2 completely (12 were blank!).

So the question is, was it good for you?  Take a look at the poll to the right, there are basically 2 questions there, 1): Do you like the free form stages, or do you want rigid procedures, and 2): Do you want  me to publish scores (assuming folks can fill them out completely, adding them up would be nice, but I will do it, I just need all stages to be present)

Or maybe there is a hybrid idea out there that would work, there were a few suggestions thrown about at the end of the day that were interesting.

Take the poll and feel free to comment here, remember this is your shoot, and I want to maximize the fun for you.

g

April FunShoot, This Saturday the 20th

4/18  Ok, Final details:
We are at 50 shooters, we lost a few to the Colt 3manteam series, so there are slots left open.

This shoot will be open to pistol, shotgun (7/12 shot or smaller, no slugs) and pistol caliber (includes .22) carbines.

Due to lack of interest, I am not planning on doing "official" scoring.  I will issue score sheets so you can keep track of your buddy and shooting order. I will no longer try to keep track of all the various combinations of guns and problem solutions available at the shoot for posting, heck, this is a FunShoot, lets just have some safe fun.

I will present you with 7 stages of "stuff", and instructions on what types of targets can be engaged with what type of gun, the rest is up to you.  Shoot it however you like, with whatever you like, as long as you let the RO know your intent, and you do so safely.

Registration begins at 8, no walk thru, most of you are veterans, nubees will be mentored.  Safety brief and special speech at 8:45, shooting real close to 9am.

Round count is what you make of it, you can shoot as much or as little as you like, and with whatever guns you bring.  I can tell you, there will be about 100 targets available to engage.


Remember, York is a cold range, please have all firearms unloaded and secured when you arrive at the range, including CC permit holders.  Handle firearms only after you register, and receive instructions.




We are up to about 40, first set of confirms will go out Wed evening.

This is not our usual Saturday.  I will be using 3 of the stages from the team shoot yesterday, with a little modification.....

Usual options, single or multiple guns, timed or not, round count it up to you, etc, etc.  I will post more details in a day or so.  The important thing its that signup is open at yorksignup@gmail.com.

g

York 3M3G Offical Stage Results

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/66165069/York%20Results/3M3G.pdf


Thank you to all the hard working RO's and shooters who came out to participate.

Interim results

Here's a brief view of results until we get a more complete set out.

Team	Div	$	Total
Lancer 1	Tac	$	409.93
York	Tac	$	416.71
Ready Aim Fire	Tac	$	434.20
Lancer 2	Tac		486.17
MHI Chesapeake	Tac		489.40
Team Jersey	Tac		548.09
JVL	Tac		574.35
Virginia Arms	Tac		577.82
Brass Masters	Tac		588.80
Outlaw Ridiculous	Open		593.81
3A	Tac		597.02
High Speed Low Drag	Tac		606.64
Zeno	Tac		611.71
3 Blind Mice	Tac		619.54
MZK	Tac		622.89
Essex Thunder	Tac		644.66
Havoc	Tac		655.54
OBCAT Rejects	Tac		690.06
BMG	Tac		714.97
Saubier.com	Tac		732.74
Scrapple	Tac		777.32
Gun Connection	Tac		791.18
O'Malley's Nightmare	Tac		812.71
Lancer 3	Tac		874.26
Three Stooges	Tac		888.22
Trigger Ninjas	Tac		895.69
Team WES	Tac		920.93
Return Fire	Lim		931.89
Tango Uniform	Tac		946.60
Last Minutemen	Tac		1024.24
TDJ	Tac		1030.21
Plan B	Tac		1031.46
Double J-D	Tac		1147.81
JOS	Tac		1180.91
AP Tactical	Tac		1252.85
NoVa Gunrunners	Tac		1301.38
Team Trihard	Tac		1304.90
EDC	Lim		1326.36

Team match Sunday

I have answers to a couple questions that I have received recently:

1. We will be enforcing the FNH rules on mag capacity Sunday.  30 rounds max in your rifle unless you're shooting Open.  And only centerfire rifles will be allowed.

2. If you have member (or two) back out of your team last minute plan on shooting anyway.   We'll get your team patched up and back on the field.  Likewise, if you never got on a team we'll make every attempt to get you on one.

3. By 9:00am your captain should check your team in at registration which will be in the little room between the rifle range and pistol range pavilions.  Let Dave know if your whole team is present or not.  If it's not stay there so we can find you what you need.

Here is the email I sent the team captains Monday with some last minute details:

8:00 am – We’ll be finishing up match set-up. Please pitch in if you can.

 

9:00 am – Captains check in and get score sheets.

 

9:15 am – Captains briefing.  I’ll take you on a quick tour of the stages.

 

9:50 am – Match briefing.  Very brief.

 

10:00 am – First shots fired.

 

The group that has done lunch for our last several matches will be doing food again.  Plan on eating lunch at some point between stages.  The food is very good and affordable.  They will also have drinks available.

 

Two things we would like you to bring along if you have them are timers, and binoculars for calling hits on the rifle range.

 

Shooters will not be allowed to pick up any brass during the match.  The penalty will be a 20 second penalty per occurrence.  If they become a habitual problem they will be asked to leave.  It's not worth holding the match up for. They will be allowed to pick up brass after teardown is complete.

 

Two notes on safety:

- You may unbag your firearms at your vehicles and load them into your range carts.  You may also holster at your vehicles for this match.  You may not handle ammunition either loose or in mags and your firearms at the same time anywhere except at the firing line under RO supervision.  Firearms must be kept unloaded until you are ordered to do so.  No ammo in the gun at all.

- Anytime you abandon a firearm during a course of fire it must be in a safe condition.  This means either safety on, or completely empty (no ammo anywhere inside gun or attached mag).  We will not be down range of any abandoned firearms on any stages this match so they do not have to be unloaded if the safety is on.

 

The stage diagrams are available at http://www.yorkiwlaipsc.com/forms/York_3m3g_stages_Spr2013.pdf

 

The official stage briefings are attached to this email.  They are accurate at this point and supercede the drawings.  They are subject to changes up until the first shot fired.

 

Additional changes to the stages include:

 

Pit 1: There will be 6 bunkers instead of 4.

 

Pit 2: None

 

Pit 3: The positions, approximate distances, and targets will be – 80 yards to three b/c zones that must be shot from a 2’x2’ box with no barricade, 110 yards to three 6” circles that must be shot from a Vtac barricade using any port, rest or position you like, and three skinny sammies at 140 yards from behind a fault line with no barricade (prone will be an option at both of the latter).   We made this stage closer and easier than originally intended because there was some concern over the scarcity and expense of rifle ammo.  It should therefore be a much faster stage.

 

Pit 5: The placement of the targets are not the same as on the drawing.  The numbers of targets are accurate.  You will be allowed to shoot clays with pistol.  Any shooter may engage any steel with pistol.

 

Pit 6: There are no-shoots on this stage.  Shooters will be allowed to use pistols and/or rifles on this stage.

 

Pit 7: Five of the poppers on each side have been replaced by Texas Stars. So there are still 24 pieces of steel that anyone can shoot with either pistol or shotgun.  This should still be a very fast stage.

 

I will tell you now, because I have been asked a few times already, there are no surprises this match.  No give-aways, no t-shirts, no special targets.  I do have some tricks up my sleeves, but I’m saving it for the fall.

 

See you tomorrow, Howard

Our new payout system for major matches at York

The problem with our new unsanctioned matches is that there are no classes.  I know there is a 3 Gun Nation classification system in the works, but it is a ways off from being ready, and we don't want to pay their fees.  We just got away from USPSA.  There is no need to leave one relationship and jump into the first thing that comes along.  We're not getting involved in that.  Maybe someday.

The problem with "top down" payouts, meaning prizes that start with the winner and dwindle down proportionally to the bottom of the list, which I do understand, and personally like, is that the newer guys, and people who don't live at the range have no chance unless the prizes go very, very deep.  "Top down" works at really big sponsored matches because the sponsors donate so much to make them happen that the prizes often do go very deep.  But these sponsors give a ton to the really big matches and I don't want to hound them, and it is a lot of work getting those sponsors.  Without sponsorship it is not possible to pay cash deep enough with meaningful prizes without bankrupting the match to make a difference.  So "top down" is out.

We tried "Cash optional" payouts, where the shooters who want to be in the prize pool paid in extra money, and 100% of that money was paid back.  That's just another version of "top down" and after a while all but a few get wise and quit playing.  So there's so little money in it that it's not worth the administration of it.

There is another cash payout system called "Lewis scoring".  "Lewis", I believe originated in trap or skeet shooting and the way it is supposed to work is that payout is done on set percentiles.  For instance the winner(100%) gets paid, whoever finishes at 75% gets paid, whoever finishes at 50% gets paid and whoever finishes at 25% gets paid.  It has the advantage of spreading the money out all over the list, but with the exception of the match winner it's really about dumb luck.  Somehow it either makes you very happy or it makes you feel like you got cheated.  I always feel cheated.  We won't use this form of dumb luck payouts.

At future club level or monthly matches we will not be doing any kind of payouts.  We haven't raised our match fees in years and $20 is very reasonable in our estimation.  We can still buy props and targets, make range improvements, and make some money for the club, and we can  give some discounts to the guys who help run the program. (email me if you want to get in on that and you're not already) We won't be running "cash optional" either.  If you want to shoot for something talk your buddies into a friendly wager to buy lunch or something.

So, here's where were at with the June 8th and 9th "2013 York Izaak Walton Multi-gun Challenge", the July 27th "Blasphemous Steel" match, and the September 8th "2M3G".  I think I have devised a system using parts of the "Top down" and "Lewis" systems combined with bracket racing from drag racing that should work to satisfy the people at the top, and some people farther down the list, and while there will still be some luck involved you will control your own destiny.

On the match application it will ask which percentile you want to shoot in.  Now you can choose the 100-90.001% meaning you intend to win the match or any of the lower percentile brackets based on you past experiences, lack of experience, what kind of breakfast you had, the phase of the moon, or any criteria you choose.  Here's the trick: You can't shoot better than you predicted.

If you chose to shoot in the 80-70.001 percentile and you finished the match at 84% of the match winner you "broke out" of your bracket and aren't eligible for prizes.  The good news is that you shot better than you expected and you can be proud of that.

On the other hand if you chose the 80-70.001 percentile and only shot 62% of the winner it is quite likely that people did shoot closer to 80% than you and you're not going to win anything either.  So going under is not going to sink you automatically, but will realistically in most cases.

So be optimistic in your prediction.

Your choices of brackets or percentiles will be:
100-90.001%
90-80.001%
80-70.001%
70-60.001%
60-50.001%
50% and under

Here's an example of how this payout system may work in a hypothetical match:

Shooter	Predicted bracket	Actual %	Prize
G	100-90.001%	100	$200
H	100-90.001%	94	$100
I	100-90.001%	89	$50
J	90-80.001%	88	$180
K	90-80.001%	86	$90
L	90-80.001%	85	$45
M	90-80.001%	83	0
N	80-70.001%	81	0
O	80-70.001%	79	$160
P	80-70.001%	77	$80
Q	80-70.001%	72	$40
R	80-70.001%	71	0
S	70-60.001%	82	0
T	70-60.001%	71	0
U	70-60.001%	69	$140
V	70-60.001%	68	$70
W	70-60.001%	65	$35
X	70-60.001%	64	0
Y	60-50.001%	61	0
Z	60-50.001%	59	$120
A	60-50.001%	58	$60
B	60-50.001%	57	$30
C	60-50.001%	56	0
D	50% and under	50	$100
E	50% and under	45	$50
F	50% and under	32	$25
GG	50% and under	30	0

You should notice several things:
1. The match winner "G" is still the highest paid, and should always be. The winner of each bracket gets less than the bracket above.  Second place in each bracket is half of what the winner got.  Third in each bracket is half of what second got.
2. Shooters "M, R, X, C, and G" all shot within their predicted brackets, but weren't in the top 3 so they don't get paid.  That's going to happen.  This isn't pre-K soccer.  We do keep score. Not everyone gets a trophy.
3. Shooters "N, S, T, and Y" all shot above their predicted brackets, or "broke out".  That could have been avoided by being more optimistic in their predictions.  They can still be proud that they exceeded their expectations.

I don't think this system is perfect, but I think it's better than anything I've seen to this point that is ready to go.  I reserve the right to tweak it, and the numbers above are just for illustrative purposes.  To achieve those numbers there would be a lot more shooters involved than what is listed, probably 3-4 times as many.

I welcome your comments and suggestions.